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This debate was held at Ramer, Tenn., Nov. 15-18, 1921 and was clean, high-class debate. I admire Bogard as a man and debater. He is as fearless and daring as Goliath, yet modest enough in debate to be a real gentleman. This was my first time to hear bro. Howell in debate. I have known him for several years and have thought him to be a great man, but was surprised beyond measure at his ability as a debater. He showed himself equal to the occasion.
The general church question was discussed. Mr. Bogard led the first two days, In his first speech he laid down eight fundamentals of the Baptist doctrine: 1) Establishment of the church, 2) direct impact of the Holy Spirit, 3) salvation wholly by grace, 4) design of baptism, 5) security of believers, 6) restricted or closed communion, 7) name, 8) reception of members. (See Bogard-Curtis debate)
On the origin of the church, Bogard quoted Acts 1:21-22. He defined "church" as a body of baptized believers in the same faith and fellowship. Bro. Howell gave quite a bit of trouble over his definition and showed him that Acts 1:21- 22 said nothing about a church, and that in order to establish his claim he must resort to forgery. In his second speech Bogard abandoned his "from the baptism of John" saying, "If I cannot go back to the baptism of John, I can back up to Pentecost," and said he believed the church was established in Jerusalem.
On the matter of salvation wholly by grace, he said grace included faith, love, repentance and blood. Bro. Howell placed baptism in the circle (on black board) by the same process of reasoning, and asked Mr. Bogard in almost every speech to take it out, but he never tried to do so.
On the design of baptism, Mr. Bogard showed himself unequal to the task. He staked his honor and scholarship on the proposition that the Greek "EIS," when pointing out relation or condition, was always "with reference to, or on account of, or because of." Bro. Howell challenged his honor and scholarship, but he failed to produce any authority.
On depravity, he quoted Ps. 51:5 and Job 14:1. Later on he said that a child was not born a sinner, but was like the duck - not born swimming, but with a disposition to swim.
On direct impact of the H. S., he illustrated by placing his hand on a man's head, saying: by direct, immediate impact I mean without means of medium." Bro, Howell met every argument and Bogard abandoned his position and said that the H. S. never operates without means, and that the word is the means.
Bogard also made a hard fight on church succession; but Howell clipped his chain at both ends, and Bogard admitted they were not called "Missionary Baptist" til almost 1832.
Bogard seemed not to care about any definite position - just the one that gave him the least trouble. He said that bro. Howell was the strongest man he ever met in all of his debates.
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F. O. Howell vs Ben M. Bogard (Baptist)
December 15, 1921
Ramer, Tennessee
(By A. H. Lannom)
December 15, 1921
Ramer, Tennessee
(By A. H. Lannom)
This debate was held at Ramer, Tenn., Nov. 15-18, 1921 and was clean, high-class debate. I admire Bogard as a man and debater. He is as fearless and daring as Goliath, yet modest enough in debate to be a real gentleman. This was my first time to hear bro. Howell in debate. I have known him for several years and have thought him to be a great man, but was surprised beyond measure at his ability as a debater. He showed himself equal to the occasion.
The general church question was discussed. Mr. Bogard led the first two days, In his first speech he laid down eight fundamentals of the Baptist doctrine: 1) Establishment of the church, 2) direct impact of the Holy Spirit, 3) salvation wholly by grace, 4) design of baptism, 5) security of believers, 6) restricted or closed communion, 7) name, 8) reception of members. (See Bogard-Curtis debate)
On the origin of the church, Bogard quoted Acts 1:21-22. He defined "church" as a body of baptized believers in the same faith and fellowship. Bro. Howell gave quite a bit of trouble over his definition and showed him that Acts 1:21- 22 said nothing about a church, and that in order to establish his claim he must resort to forgery. In his second speech Bogard abandoned his "from the baptism of John" saying, "If I cannot go back to the baptism of John, I can back up to Pentecost," and said he believed the church was established in Jerusalem.
On the matter of salvation wholly by grace, he said grace included faith, love, repentance and blood. Bro. Howell placed baptism in the circle (on black board) by the same process of reasoning, and asked Mr. Bogard in almost every speech to take it out, but he never tried to do so.
On the design of baptism, Mr. Bogard showed himself unequal to the task. He staked his honor and scholarship on the proposition that the Greek "EIS," when pointing out relation or condition, was always "with reference to, or on account of, or because of." Bro. Howell challenged his honor and scholarship, but he failed to produce any authority.
On depravity, he quoted Ps. 51:5 and Job 14:1. Later on he said that a child was not born a sinner, but was like the duck - not born swimming, but with a disposition to swim.
On direct impact of the H. S., he illustrated by placing his hand on a man's head, saying: by direct, immediate impact I mean without means of medium." Bro, Howell met every argument and Bogard abandoned his position and said that the H. S. never operates without means, and that the word is the means.
Bogard also made a hard fight on church succession; but Howell clipped his chain at both ends, and Bogard admitted they were not called "Missionary Baptist" til almost 1832.
Bogard seemed not to care about any definite position - just the one that gave him the least trouble. He said that bro. Howell was the strongest man he ever met in all of his debates.
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