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0472
Debate at Cornersville, Tenn, Dec. 10, 1921
1) Ditzler affirmed: "The baptism of infants is according to the Holy Scriptures, and should be retained in the church." Ditzler presented nothing new; he tried to set up church in the Jewish age and baptism in lieu of circumcision. Ditzler is an old debater, having held, possibly, more debates with our brethren than any other man; yet young bro. Johnson overthrew his arguments with ease. The Methodists, to make it appear they had not suffered defeat, announced at the close of the 10th day that they would have preaching and baptize some infants that evening. Johnson replied: "Let everybody come back and see this proposition scotched. It is going down, and they have to scotch it."
2) Johnson affirmed: "Immersion in water is the baptism commanded by Christ, and was practiced throughout the life of the apostles." Johnson clearly established his proposition by the original Greek, from standard English translations, from church history, and from the scholarship of the world. He added, that if Ditzler would show one place in all of God's word where water of itself was ever poured or sprinkled on any person or thing as a religious act he would quit the debate. This was a thorn in Ditzler's flesh for the rest of the debate. Ditzler tried to prove that the Greek word translated "pour" was by some authorities translated "immerse," offered as proof, Matt.15:2. But Johnson showed that the word is Matt. 15:2 was never used in N. T. for baptism. Ditzler then spoke of the ceremonial cleansing of the Jewish priests, saying that it could not have been a washing of the body, because it was done before the people. But Johnson showed that the part that was washed was clothed, which was such a complete defeat of Ditzler's argument that his moderator tried to rescue him by saying that the point was too indelicate to be argued before the audience. But Ditzler had made the argument and he had to suffer the reply. This was a victory for Johnson.
3) Ditzler affirmed: "In regeneration (or the new birth) the Spirit acts (operates) directly on the sinner's heart." Ditzler never touched the real question, but dodged behind the baptism of the Spirit. He gave, as an illustration of the operation of the Spirit, the sending of a telegram. Johnson showed, however, that this was against him; for to prove his proposition the one to whom the message was sent would have to operate or take the message from the wire. Johnson showed that this proved his side of the question: God sent the message through the Spirit; the apostles received it, wrote it down, and gave it (the Bible) to the people. On this question the Methodist relied more on the Bible proof than on any other question under dispute, and the victory was even greater.
4) Johnson affirmed: "The scriptures teach that baptism is for (in order to) the remission of sins." Johnson was strong and logical, and his opponent could not overturn or reach his arguments. Ditzler grew bitter in his remarks, charging that we teach all other religious people are condemned to damnation. When he was forced to explain why Methodist baptize infants, he misread his own "Discipline," which teaches that baptism to the infant is for the remission of the inbred Adamic sin. Ditzler told of one of our preachers preaching on Daniel in the lion's den and the three Hebrew children and getting them all under the water. Johnson asked Ditzler if he really believed that Daniel was in the lion's den and that the three Hebrew children were really in the fiery furnace, to this he gave no reply.
5) Johnson affirmed: "The church with which I stand identified (known as the church of Christ) is the church of the holy scriptures; it is, therefore, the only true church." Johnson showed that the prophets, Jesus Christ, and the apostles pointed to Acts 2 as a revelation of the time, the place, and the coming of the kingdom, or the church of Christ. Ditzler went back to his first proposition and tried to set up a Jewish church. He failed again.
6) Ditzler affirmed: "The M. E. Church, South, is scriptural in origin, constitution, doctrine and practice, but it does not claim to be the only true church." Ditzler gave only one proof text: "By their proof ye shall know them." And then he delivered a eulogy on John Wesley and the M. E. Church, South. Johnson did not reply to the eulogy, but gave 47 reasons why the M. E. Church, South, is not scriptural; and in his strong, logical reasoning from the scriptures he destroyed error, and at the same time, planted truth that will manifest itself for years to come. It was the general opinion that the truth was never more vigorous than in this discussion.
The Methodists tried to destroy the force of Johnson's last speech by presenting Ditzler with flowers and fruit in the midst of it; but Johnson was equal to the occasion, as he always is. I do not think they will have D. meet Johnson again. The best of feelings prevailed between speakers. Ditzler moderator continually created a disturbance.
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A. P. Johnson vs Jacob Ditzler (Methodist)
March 6, 1902
Cornersville, Tennessee
(By P. H. Hooten)
March 6, 1902
Cornersville, Tennessee
(By P. H. Hooten)
Debate at Cornersville, Tenn, Dec. 10, 1921
1) Ditzler affirmed: "The baptism of infants is according to the Holy Scriptures, and should be retained in the church." Ditzler presented nothing new; he tried to set up church in the Jewish age and baptism in lieu of circumcision. Ditzler is an old debater, having held, possibly, more debates with our brethren than any other man; yet young bro. Johnson overthrew his arguments with ease. The Methodists, to make it appear they had not suffered defeat, announced at the close of the 10th day that they would have preaching and baptize some infants that evening. Johnson replied: "Let everybody come back and see this proposition scotched. It is going down, and they have to scotch it."
2) Johnson affirmed: "Immersion in water is the baptism commanded by Christ, and was practiced throughout the life of the apostles." Johnson clearly established his proposition by the original Greek, from standard English translations, from church history, and from the scholarship of the world. He added, that if Ditzler would show one place in all of God's word where water of itself was ever poured or sprinkled on any person or thing as a religious act he would quit the debate. This was a thorn in Ditzler's flesh for the rest of the debate. Ditzler tried to prove that the Greek word translated "pour" was by some authorities translated "immerse," offered as proof, Matt.15:2. But Johnson showed that the word is Matt. 15:2 was never used in N. T. for baptism. Ditzler then spoke of the ceremonial cleansing of the Jewish priests, saying that it could not have been a washing of the body, because it was done before the people. But Johnson showed that the part that was washed was clothed, which was such a complete defeat of Ditzler's argument that his moderator tried to rescue him by saying that the point was too indelicate to be argued before the audience. But Ditzler had made the argument and he had to suffer the reply. This was a victory for Johnson.
3) Ditzler affirmed: "In regeneration (or the new birth) the Spirit acts (operates) directly on the sinner's heart." Ditzler never touched the real question, but dodged behind the baptism of the Spirit. He gave, as an illustration of the operation of the Spirit, the sending of a telegram. Johnson showed, however, that this was against him; for to prove his proposition the one to whom the message was sent would have to operate or take the message from the wire. Johnson showed that this proved his side of the question: God sent the message through the Spirit; the apostles received it, wrote it down, and gave it (the Bible) to the people. On this question the Methodist relied more on the Bible proof than on any other question under dispute, and the victory was even greater.
4) Johnson affirmed: "The scriptures teach that baptism is for (in order to) the remission of sins." Johnson was strong and logical, and his opponent could not overturn or reach his arguments. Ditzler grew bitter in his remarks, charging that we teach all other religious people are condemned to damnation. When he was forced to explain why Methodist baptize infants, he misread his own "Discipline," which teaches that baptism to the infant is for the remission of the inbred Adamic sin. Ditzler told of one of our preachers preaching on Daniel in the lion's den and the three Hebrew children and getting them all under the water. Johnson asked Ditzler if he really believed that Daniel was in the lion's den and that the three Hebrew children were really in the fiery furnace, to this he gave no reply.
5) Johnson affirmed: "The church with which I stand identified (known as the church of Christ) is the church of the holy scriptures; it is, therefore, the only true church." Johnson showed that the prophets, Jesus Christ, and the apostles pointed to Acts 2 as a revelation of the time, the place, and the coming of the kingdom, or the church of Christ. Ditzler went back to his first proposition and tried to set up a Jewish church. He failed again.
6) Ditzler affirmed: "The M. E. Church, South, is scriptural in origin, constitution, doctrine and practice, but it does not claim to be the only true church." Ditzler gave only one proof text: "By their proof ye shall know them." And then he delivered a eulogy on John Wesley and the M. E. Church, South. Johnson did not reply to the eulogy, but gave 47 reasons why the M. E. Church, South, is not scriptural; and in his strong, logical reasoning from the scriptures he destroyed error, and at the same time, planted truth that will manifest itself for years to come. It was the general opinion that the truth was never more vigorous than in this discussion.
The Methodists tried to destroy the force of Johnson's last speech by presenting Ditzler with flowers and fruit in the midst of it; but Johnson was equal to the occasion, as he always is. I do not think they will have D. meet Johnson again. The best of feelings prevailed between speakers. Ditzler moderator continually created a disturbance.
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