Discussion Board entries on the web site of Cherry Point church of Christ en-us Copyright 2008 not currently available (Harvey Hurst) http://www.cherrypointchurchofchrist.com http://www.thelordsway.com/TLW_email_logosm.jpg http://www.cherrypointchurchofchrist.com Discussion Board entries on the web site of Cherry Point church of Christ jmziegler@suddenlink.net - I think there is a misconception about tattoos and peircings and what is acceptable by society (Though I don't think it's as widely accepted as one may think) is also acceptable for a Christian to partake in. Tattoos where forbidden by God because they were a pagan practice (Lev 19:28). Even though Christ nailed the "hand written ordnances to the cross (Col 2:14); has a pagan practice every been acceptable to God? Do we own our body? Are we not to obstain from ALL appearance of evil? Mon, 14 Apr 2008 19:42:00 +0600 DiscussionID709 http://www.cherrypointchurchofchrist.com rodriquez@ec.rr.com - An interesting discussion arose this past week and I was wondering what other people thought about this subject. I have not been able to find anything in the Bible that tells us it is ok or not ok to do. I have heard some say that we should only be singing out with our voices and not making hand gestures or clapping during worship. Please respond with your thoughts on this matter and any scripture that actually supports your thought. Mon, 16 Jul 2007 19:42:00 +0600 DiscussionID552 http://www.cherrypointchurchofchrist.com bc4life@yahoo.com - About your thoughts about clapping, it should be point out that the ONLY music with make is with the "fruit of our lips" (Heb 13:15). Also we "sing with the Understanding" (Cor 14:15). Doing more than singing is ADDING to the Lord's Church. There many things that were done in the OT, but now that we follow the NT and the Church that Jesus built, there was a new form of worship. Clapping your hands is another form of "making melody" and the ONLY "melody" we are to make is in our hearts by SINGING only. This is a good question and I hope this helps. God Bless! In HIM Mon, 06 Aug 2007 19:42:00 +0600 DiscussionID557 http://www.cherrypointchurchofchrist.com I can not find anywhere in the new testiment that says I can't clap, and it is well with my soul. I am seeking first to find the Kingdom of God, and there will be a lot of clapping, singing, and music played there! Hope to see everyone there! Did I mention dancing? Tue, 08 Jan 2008 19:42:00 +0600 DiscussionID628 http://www.cherrypointchurchofchrist.com Mike, it is also ok to snort cocaine? The bible doesn't say I can't. How about marry my sister? No New Testament teachings prohibit this either. You misunderstand biblical silence as authorization when we HAVE been given clear instructions on what we ARE to do. You have added to the scriptures and included your own desires as you yourself said "it is well with less thanugreater thanmyless than/ugreater than soul. Let's all do exactly what the Bible says, how it says and why it says so we can be less thanigreater thanassuredless than/igreater than we will see everyone there and leave the less thanigreater thanhopeless than/ugreater than you mentioned behind. Wed, 09 Jan 2008 19:42:00 +0600 DiscussionID629 http://www.cherrypointchurchofchrist.com Jesus said that our bodies are like the temple of God. So I would not snort cocaine, so I do believe the bible tells me not to. The bible also says we are to obey the laws of man as long as they do not contradict God's law. Romans 13:1-7 1.Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2.Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3.For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4.For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5.Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6.This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. 7.Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor. So I think marrying your sister is illegal in all 50 states. Right? The Church of Christ worshiping criteria states " As a result of the distinctive plea of the church - a return to New Testament Faith and practice - acappella singing is the only music used in the worship. This singing, unaccompanied by mechanical instruments of music, conforms to the music used in the apostolic church and for several centuries thereafter (Ephesians 5:19). It is felt that there is no authority for engaging in acts of worship not found in the New Testament. This principle eliminates the use of instrumental music, along with the use of candles, incense, and other similar elements." Clapping is not mechanical, at least mine isn’t. I thought this link said "discussion", and that was my intent. My goal was not to bring down anyone’s religious belief structure or to add words to the scripture. I choose to attend the Church of Christ because it is the closest system of beliefs to mine that I have found, and I will continue to attend as long as I am still hear on earth. This discussion has brought out a disturbing trend in today’s church, and that is the trend of Christians attacking Christians instead of lifting each other up. I still hope and pray that we can all get to heaven, and what a day of rejoicing that will be. We will sing and shout VICTORY! God Bless! Sat, 12 Jan 2008 19:42:00 +0600 DiscussionID630 http://www.cherrypointchurchofchrist.com God’s law is universal. What about countries where these things are not illegal? I am sorry you felt attacked. However, you did make a statement with which you know many will disagree. A statement that will be viewed by many as one that violates God’s law concerning our pattern for worship. Furthermore you used an open forum that could cause others to accept your belief system that is based on your own desire, not scripture, because that is what you said. You went on to include musically instruments in a subtle way when you said “I am seeking first to find the Kingdom of God, and there will be a lot of clapping, singing, and music played there!” You seemed to have backed away from this in your second post but only after challenged (not attacked) which is why I did that. Also where is this “The Church of Christ worshiping criteria” of which you spoke? I am unfamiliar with this. When you take part in an online, world wide open forum, where you views could be considered to represent the church universal, and declare things righteous that have no scriptural backing you should be challenged. You mentioned a trend about Christians attacking Christians. The trend I see is not this so much as people who desire a change to God’s worship pattern who make statements such as yours and then getting their feelings hurt when anyone disagrees (I am not suggesting you fall in this category because I do not know you). This is the danger of using feelings to drive how we serve God and not scriptural authority. I am not attacking you. Instead I am challenging you, and anyone who reads these posts in the future, to consider God’s Word as the sole guide in our worship and manner of life. This method makes things easy. We all use the exact same pattern, which we are 100% sure pleases God, and no ones feelings can cause division and doubt. Let me add that there are some things in the church today that need to be changed to bring us more in line with God’s will. I hear that membership is shrinking, I know very few people who study their Bible often, homes no longer have devos and prayers instead leaving the Bible class teacher to instruct their children and most Christians seem to treat worship as something they have to do twice on Sunday. I applaud you because you were bold enough to post what you believe. Don’t lose that fire. Thanks for the conversation Mon, 14 Jan 2008 19:42:00 +0600 DiscussionID633 http://www.cherrypointchurchofchrist.com I would like to see a copy of the "The Church of Christ Worshiping Criteria." I've never seen this in my whole life. What else does it "state"? Sun, 20 Jan 2008 19:42:00 +0600 DiscussionID649 http://www.cherrypointchurchofchrist.com This is where Church of Christ information is listed. If this is incorrect information please let me know. http://church-of-christ.org/who.html#music Sun, 20 Jan 2008 19:42:00 +0600 DiscussionID650 http://www.cherrypointchurchofchrist.com Although it may have answers to what we do, and who we are, it does not, however, qualify as a "criteria." Our only Criteria is the Holy Bible, and in that inspired book, there is no reference to where we can clap, have music, etc. It may not be condemned, but it is not spoken of, you should consider Matthew 26:30: "30When they had sung a hymn, they went out to the Mount of Olives." They sung a song. This was without instruments, clapping, etc. The only times instrumental music is related to in worship is in the Old Testament. Clapping is NEVER mentioned. Wed, 23 Jan 2008 19:42:00 +0600 DiscussionID653 http://www.cherrypointchurchofchrist.com krisscecilcrihfield@hotmail.com - I was looking through websites of churches of Christ near where a friend of mine has moved and I found this discussion. I'd just like to share a thought. Paul states in Romans 10:17, "So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." So the order would be as follows: Word of God --greater than hearing --greater than faith. The word of God is clear what music is to be used: instructional singing. Because of this, I have faith in instructional singing. Where there is no word of God, though, there can be no FAITH. When the Bible authorized singing, anything else is without faith. It's as if you're Wile E. Coyote from Looney Toons running off a cliff and hanging there: there is no ground beneath him. What is the result? He falls. Where there is no authority from God's word, I fall when I try to stand thereon. God bless you brethren as you endeavor to seek God's will above your own. May we all do the same. Sun, 02 Mar 2008 19:42:00 +0600 DiscussionID688 http://www.cherrypointchurchofchrist.com jmziegler@suddenlink.net - We often refer to the passage that tells us to do "All things decently and in oder (1 Cor 14:40) but I would like to take it a step further. Why do we gather together to worship? Do we gather together to present worship to our God as individuals? When we sing, we sing as one; when we pray, we pray individually but as one body; when we partake of the Lord's supper we are all equal as one. I can go on and on about the exhortation of the NT to be one mind, one body. By clapping when everyone else is not, a person becomes an individual and a distraction to those around them. Is this edifying? Is this in consideration of those we're worshipping with? Worship is not about what we get but what we give. Mon, 14 Apr 2008 19:42:00 +0600 DiscussionID708 http://www.cherrypointchurchofchrist.com If you have reasonable debate, and you can back up every word with biblical scripture then it is worth hearing. In your heart, if you believe that something is wrong, then you shouldn''t do it, for that would be wrong of you. But do not condemn others for what they are doing in worship if it is coming straight from their heart. Sometimes, we get so caught up in trying to interpret exactly what God meant, that we become judge and jury and in doing that we are out of place. Not to say that we shouldn''t feel strongly about what we believe and interpret, but God does not want us to judge one another. God is love and expects us to represent that in His name. Sun, 22 Jun 2008 19:42:00 +0600 DiscussionID864 http://www.cherrypointchurchofchrist.com